Here, guess what?. I had ever such a funny thing happen to me the other day.

It's like this. I went to interview this band and found that the singer

practically took the job away from me. There we were, the three of us, the

erstwhile shy and retiring Vince Clarke admitting that he once thought he

was "the bee's knees", taking a grilling from not only myself, but also his

very own partner in chimes, Andy Bell.

Andy Bell, now there's a lad who could do me out of a job and a few other

things as well. But more of that later...

Sitting in a pub near Mute HQ, the pair are cautious, but nevertheless still

excited, by the prospect of their latest single, 'Sometimes', thrusting them

onto 'TOTP'. The single is sitting comfortably in the Top 40, and although

this won't be the first time around for Vince ( he's had quite a run of it,

what with Depeche Mode, then Yazoo and The Assembly ), but it certainly is

for Mr. Bell, who seems suitably excited at the prospect of displaying some

nice little outfit on screen.

So, is Vince, the old hand, nostalgic about his days of being a virtual

resident of the show?.

"Sometimes. I live right near Shepherd's Bush and I look at Television

Centre as I drive past...I'm really excited, but also I haven't worked

before for this amount of time without getting anything."

I might add here that this is a very talkative Vince we have today, and as

far away from the old, somewhat less than vocal incarnation as Andy Bell is

from going into a monastery. Vince, I'm surprised you've come out of

yourself so much, you have such a reputation for being 'O, silent one' in

interviews. Is it Andy's influence?.

V: "It's age!. No, well, yeah, it's him a little bit."

A: "I've really bolstered you up, haven't I?. I've given him a new lease of

life!"

Vince looks a trifle nonplussed and peers cautiously sideways, as if he's

about to jump on the table and do the Can Can.

V: "I don't know. I just think I can relate to people better than I could

before and I feel much happier now. Content really. It's just getting older

'n' that, and not being so paranoid about things. Feeling more secure."

So do you feel a lot more secure about your abilities as a songwriter,

perhaps?

V: "Erm, no. I feel more realistic about them.I've learnt that's all luck,

'cos, a couple of years ago, I really believed I was, like, the bee's knees,

and I thought, well, I might get to an age where I really started believing

that for life."

Before Erasure, did you go through a feeling of self-doubt?

V: "Well, only probably with Erasure. Not really self doubt, but realising

the truth. It just brings you back to earth, you know. 'Not everything you

do gets in the charts, boy! Take note!'. So, then you start thinking, 'well,

now I'm gonna start working', and you really sort of put your mind to it."

Putting his mind to it meant 18 months of hard gigging, putting out a clutch

of fine, but ignored, singles and a damned snazzy album which failed to hit

where it should have. All a bit disheartening maybe, but Vince and Andy are

grateful more than anything to the legion of die-hard fans who recently

slept rough and followed them round the country on a 12 date tour. ( "all

credit to 'em as well," says Vince.) Something to do with Andy's onstage

antics and warm hearted approach to his audience, perhaps?

If you've ever seen Erasure live, you'll know exactly what I mean. Should

your attention ever start to ill-advisedly wonder from the superb set,

there's always Andy, flinging himself around in complete abandon, sporting

some ludicrously uninhibited ( polite description ) costume. Usually sprayed

on - or suitably revealing...

A:" That's Gypsy Rose Lee for ya!"

Earlier, Andy mentioned that he loved the film 'Gypsy' and that it was

something of an inspiration. That and the whole vaudeville thing. ( "I like

the idea of a cardboard pantomime stage..." ). Ah, but Andy, Gypsy Rose Lee

didn't have a set of male genitalia on display, did she?

A: "Well, I can't help it, can I?"

Since Vince has come out of himself so much lately, does this mean that

maybe he'll be next on stage in a dress. Once again, Vince looks dubious.

V: "I think I'd be too conscious of meself. You're concious of yourself

enough, anyway."

A: "I really love drag queens. I think anything that you're really into, you

should just try yourself. When I first came down here, that was one of the

things I thought. 'Oh well, if I can't make any money, perhaps I should do

that'."

Would you like to have boobs to complete it?. He looks thoughtful for a

moment and then, ever so slightly wistful. "Mmm, well, I mess about...Like

lots of times I pretend that I've got them."

What, stuff socks in bras and things?

A: "No, not stuff them, but sort of go like that..." ( sticks chest out ).

"I do think they're nice though. Nipples are nice too...Nice and chewy!.

It's really funny, there was this film on the other day and this girl was

taking her top off and she had nothing on underneath and I found myself

going like that," ( bobs from side to side of an imaginary TV screen ), " to

see her boobs, you know!"

At this point, the conversation inevitably gets back to Andy's, umm, outre

dress sense. Andy mentions that he's been thinking of having a nice rubber

Roman tunic made up. At the magic mention of rubber, I perk up. A-ha!. Do we

have another secret rubber fetishist here?

"Not really, but I like clinging things that show your shape off or make up

your shape if you haven't got it. I mean, like, it's just having a good

time, dressing up like that. It's something to hide behind, and then you get

these prats, like that bloke who reviewed a gig the other week, saying 'Oh,

the whole gender bender business was out two years ago'. And I thought,

'what a w**nker, that's not what's going on at all'."

Don't you think, though, that that's how the nation might possibly see you

and not understand the humour underneath the show?

A: "Yeah, that's what's going to happen. It's like the Daily Mirror said

something like 'the outrageously camp singer'..."

Vince: "But he's not...It's so..."

A: "Paper thin! They just see something and think 'Oh, that's it!'. I don't

think people would appreciate it unless they were queens and they're into

that sort of tacky humour. It's like a whole sort of culture, you know?"

Do they see Erasure as contributing to gay culture, then?

Vince says he's not sure, though Andy would certainly like to think that's

the case. "It has to be really, with a gay singer who says he's gay."

V: "I think it's an education for other people."

A: "But even the gay press can be so cynical. You have to be, like, a real

right-on activist to make the grade."

V: "But I think that's good, that we're not right-on activists."

A: "What do you mean?"

V: "Well, I think that people just review it as an entertainment."

Yes, um, just talk amongst yourselves chaps, I'll just paint my nails or

something...

A: "What was it like with Yazoo? I mean, what was your life like at that

time?"

V: "Well, no one sort of really talked to anybody else really..."

Well, yes, mine's a Pernod and orange and while we're off the subject, I

thought that your version of 'Gimme Gimme Gimme' was totally brilliant.

Wouldn't that have been the most obvious way to get a hit - to put that out

and cut short the long wait for a top 40 breaker?

A: "Yes, it's the whole cover version thing, though"

V: "It's not very interesting to do, is it?"

A: "It's, sort of, looking for an easy way out."

He then goes off at a tangent, having just had a brainstorm.

"We went to Dublin a while ago to do a TV show, and I went to the gay

centre and walked in and there was this bloke and he said 'Oh, you remind

me of someone. I know, you look like Andy Bell out of Erasure.' I went

'who?' and he was talking for a little while and I said 'How did you hear about

Erasure?', and he started saying that he'd heard the songs and then he went

'Oh, and I read this interview in RM and that guy is so up front!'. 'Oh, actually

that's me', I said, and he said, 'God, that was really like, political'. You know,

just because it was so up-front. And I wouldn't regard myself as political. I

think that the main aim is just to be honest to yourself. Tell the truth."

All right then, if we're playing the truth game, Vince, you always seem reluctant

to talk about the past...

V: "Well, that's because people as us most of the time, why you left this and

why you left that... Or do you mean the past before that?"

No, most people don't want to talk about the past before that.

V: "Well, that's reality though, innit?"

So what you're doing is fantasy?

V: "Yeah."

What's reality to you then?

V: "Reality?. Reality's working in a factory or at a desk. That's what everybody

else is doing."

Andy steps in and takes back the interviewer buck.

A: "It doesn't make it reality though, does it?"

V: "I don't know. It does in a way."

A: "But before you started writing songs and you were working in a factory, and

cleaning windows at the airport, you must have thought to yourself, 'Oh, if only I

could be a pop star?'."

V: "Yeah, that's right, you do."

A: "Well, that's what you are now."

V: "That can't be all there is, can there?"

By now, Andy is right into the swing of it and it seems such a shame to interrupt him...

A: "But you must have another ambition though?"

V: "I'd like to do driving. I'd like to get an HGV licence."

( Pardon me while I just creep out here and start typing up the end dots...)

A: "Why's that, though? Is that for the skill of driving, or 'cos it's a macho sort of a

job?" ( Vince, macho? That's one I wouldn't have come up with. )

V: "Er, no, 'cos I've always liked driving and you're doing a job where you've got

no one watching you and that's what I used to hate about work, you know. There's

someone over you all the time and with driving.........."

Interview by Nancy Culp